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The Heroine’s Journey with Joan Perry
I’m pleased to welcome Joan Perry to our International Podcasting live event. Joan is the host of a new podcast that is going to be launching very soon and I told you we were going to do that. We’ve had a lot of seasoned podcasters and experienced podcasters, but we have one or two of these that just launched or are in the process of building their podcast. I thought it would be great to get some insights from them as well. Joan is one of them. Her podcast is called The Heroine’s Journey to True Wealth. The Heroine’s Journey is an amazing adventure that women travel to discover their true selves.
It’s distinctly different than The Hero’s Journey that Joseph Campbell is known for talking about. The Heroine’s Journey is a universal path each woman takes to find self-worth voice and navigate to a cherished life. I can only imagine. I’m interested to hear from Joan in the context of our current political climate. I wonder if The Heroine’s Journey is taking on even some new meaning. Not to go too political on you but I’m naturally curious. Joan, can you help our audience understand what The Heroine’s Journey means to you and in the context of your show? Put it in some of your own words.
Have you gone through those bad times in your life and you wonder what’s all this about? Is it just me? They might have the care to get upset and nobody else does. It’s easy at that point to say to yourself, “I wish I picked the ticket in life where everything worked out perfectly and it all went easily.” The truth is, as we know from The Hero’s Journey, which Joseph Campbell is famous for creating, there is a road that you go down and it’s many steps. The Hero’s Journey includes upset and trial and change. Here’s the amazing part. Liz Gilbert who wrote Eat, Pray, Love, which is a book that all of us women know. She apparently asked Joseph Campbell if women have the equivalent to The Hero’s Journey. What Joseph Campbell is reported to have said, and I heard her say this on the Oprah stage when Oprah did her world tour in 2015, is that, “No, they don’t. They stay home and cry.” Isn’t that radical?
I don’t like the sound of that. It is radical. It’s a pretty bold, to put it mildly, statement to make.
As a woman having gone through all the trials and tribulations and changes and the things that we know characterize it. I know that there is a journey and so we set out to create the thirteen steps of The Heroine’s Journey. Joseph Campbell is right in one regard. Women do not have a hero’s journey, but he was wrong in another regard. We have our own journey. The differences are that men go out and externally fight the lions, tigers and bears of the world out there. As a part of that, their own character and strength grow. A woman on the other hand, it’s an internal journey and the internal journey is one of finding your self-worth and your voice. I heard you mentioned the political climate and what’s all going on for women out there and all that stuff. What they’re doing is finding their self-worth and their voice.
They certainly are over the course of years. The #MeToo Movement is in our consciousness. Things are changing and I don’t see them going back.
I worked on Wall Street. I started the first female investment banking firm in the country that underwrote municipal bonds. I was very early in the Wall Street situation where I was in situations where men made inappropriate gestures. At that time, first of all, my self-worth was diminished and I had no voice in that circumstance. While it’s rather rough and tumble in what’s going on out there right now, it is this movement of The Heroine’s Journey trying to come forth in a new way that women do stand on their own platform of self-worth with their own voice. I’d make the argument that certainly, I love men. At the same time, there’s a yin and yang. For women, I think there are in many ways more challenges with women because it’s time for us to step up with a balance that we need against all the testosterone that there is out there with our own point of view. The only way we can do that is if we go through our own heroine’s journey. The Heroine’s Journey has thirteen distinct steps as a woman grows through the process of building her character and her self-worth.
For me, I’m the only man in a house full of women. My wife and I have three daughters that I’m raising. These issues are very important to me. I’m very happy to see the old rules changing. I’m not saying #MeToo is fixing everything. It’s not. This is going to be a struggle that will continue probably indefinitely but hopefully will improve tremendously.
Let’s say that birth is messy. What we’re seeing is the birth of women. We’re seeing feminine spirit starting to come. We know it’s the age of her-story and not his-story right now and it’s just all messy. That’s the same in my own life. When I take it back to The Heroine’s Journey, we were saying about how The Hero’s Journey has its challenges and things. I’ve been through so much; divorce, physical abuse, family estate issues and so much that if I was going to look at it as, “My life is so hard and I’m so victimized. I will be missing the whole point that this is The Heroine’s Journey, that this is growing me to be stronger, to have more courage, to become more authentic and to live my own life.
I’m very happy for you that you’ve recognized that. That’s probably understanding that there is a journey and when you’re in that low point, that’s not the end of the journey. How is it you’re going to be sharing The Heroine’s Journey with the listeners of your podcast?
First, I’m going to share it with my co-creator, Ivri Turner. She also has an amazing story. We’ll be bringing on other women who have amazing stories where they chose not to say, “How did this happen to me?” Instead, “Look how much the universe is investing in me and how I’m supposed to grow from this.” We’ll be highlighting some of those stories and early on in the podcast, what we’re going to be going through very carefully are the thirteen steps of The Heroine’s Journey. What does this journey look like? How do you know when you’re on it? What step are you on right now and where do you go from here? What the journey will give you is a perspective on your whole life. It puts the past in perspective of the future. The present into some action steps in the future and hope.
If you’re going to have a number of episodes that are detailing out what the thirteen steps are, I wonder if those episodes should be highlighted differently than the others. If you’re a new listener to the podcast, you want to go through and understand the thirteen steps, unless weaving them into the first 20 to 30 episodes make sense. I don’t know, I’m just throwing this out there. When you have people finding your podcast new to them, six months or a year from now and they’ll listen to your latest episodes. Would listening to those one-on-one series of The Heroine’s Journey be very important for them to do in order to benefit the most out of your later episodes? Is there always going to be an element of those thirteen steps weaving their way into, not all at once but periodically through episodes that they don’t need to necessarily listen from the beginning? Those are some things to think about.
I like your idea because my partner and I noodled it because the thirteen steps all at once in one podcast is too much.
No question, I wouldn’t recommend that. Maybe one step per podcast is too little, but you may not want to do them all at once. You could weave it in with these stories and take your listeners on a journey to understand The Heroine’s Journey. It may make sense at some point. Those episodes, however they were published, may remain in your primary show feed, that’s what we call it, the identity where everybody is subscribed to your show and listens to. We could also take those episodes, whether it’s six or thirteen, whatever it is and separate them from the main feed and publish them again in their own feed that is the thirteen steps. In that way, somebody new coming to it and you may mention it now and again periodically in different episodes, “If you’re new to the podcast, don’t forget to check out this feed to go and learn about the thirteen steps that would accelerate your journey, then enjoying the full benefit of our latest episodes.” It’s just a thought.
We’ve built a substantial course on just the first ten steps. My point is we can go very deep. Initially, we need something to take people across the journey so that they have a context. I like your idea about setting it out at some point.
They can either be moved out of the primary feed on their own as an acceleration of understanding this or they could be in both places. It doesn’t matter. After you’ve gone through them, publish them the first time in whatever order that feels right to you, it may make sense to highlight them in some way. Other people who experience it may disagree with me and it can be changed. That’s the great thing about a podcast. You can do that and see how it’s working and get feedback from listeners, then you can pivot if you want to. It can be rearranged.Think of the past with respect, the present with actions, and the future with hope. Click To Tweet
To respond to your question, our entire podcast and each new episode, we’ll be highlighting a phase or we’ll always be integrating that structure of The Heroine’s Journey into our conversation. We feel it’s the framework and once you start to use it and play with it, it’s so useful to your life. You’re like, “Here come those winds blowing me around again.” This time because you’ve integrated the first steps, you don’t let those winds blow you around and send you off course perhaps as you did as much the first time.
Maybe you don’t get lost or question your purpose. I’m just imagining some potentials. I think that’s fantastic. I would imagine your podcast may be at the right place at the right time with what’s happening socially and politically in the world and certainly in our country right now.
I appreciate that. I want to teach The Heroine’s Journey first and then bring in the social and the political. The first step of The Heroine’s Journey is you’re sitting at home all fat and happy saying, “What could possibly happen? I’ve just made my life the way I want it to be.” You’re sitting there in your comfort zone. It’s what you think will create security and safety, but then something comes to take you out of that spot.
Life throwing you a curveball of some kind.
You haven’t had any curveballs in your life, have you?
Definitely I have had challenges and curveballs, no question. Not as a woman but as a young child. Being a child of divorce, that’s a whole lot of curveballs at my life. Those are challenges that I had to deal with, cope with and overcome. The dynamics changed over the years. To a certain extent, they still affect me now because both my parents are still alive and I have to deal with one separate from the other. I’m not in any way trying to make them equivalent but to the extent that I can have some perspective on life’s challenges.
Here’s the interesting thing. Statistically, 87% of all women will go through a major upset somewhere in their 50s.
Is that a window that’s particularly where the vulnerability is?
It’s like you did life the way you thought you should do it in the first 50 years and it’s going to work out perfectly and you’ve got it all set up. Then somehow those surprises occur. There’s a real calling in your true nature to become your authentic self. That’s where the transition occurs. That major upset is either divorce or job loss or financial or any number of things that we can think of. That’s why understanding The Heroine’s Journey gives you many tools to know how to navigate those transitions in life.
I wanted to make sure I’m clear that I was not suggesting your show should immediately be about social and political issues. It’s just with the reality of our social and political climate now, you’re going to have a lot of people seeking support and understanding new solutions. I think it’s going to be very popular.
There are a lot of pain out there that are saying, “I don’t understand this. Could you put this in some perspective for me?” I think that’s what we can do.
I love that you’re starting with a co-host too. I am a co-host on several podcasts myself and I love the dialogue versus the monologue. I do some monologue shows. Tracy’s not available sometimes and I will record some shows on my own. I still enjoy giving what I’m giving to the audience, but it’s much more fun for me like the dialogue we’re having versus me just speaking into a camera and my mic. I think you’ll enjoy it more and you will stick with it longer. I expect that the community of women out there are going to start communicating with you, responding to the content you’re creating and sharing with them. You’ll build a community. It definitely will happen. Podcasting is wonderful that way.
I was the lead in the podcast desire here, but Ivri knows our work because she’s my co-creator, so deeply that our conversations just go to a level that neither one of us could do alone. I think we will bring a much richer conversation to the subject by doing it together.
I’m sure you will. I’m excited and I’m going to make sure that all the women that I know are aware so that they can participate. We know a lot of podcast listeners.
She and I had a conversation that at the end we were like, “We should have recorded this,” because it took us through our work in it. We’re almost laughing that the universe is sending us the lessons we need to know to be able to write and to speak at the depths. We feel we were called into this work like, “How did we get pitched for this?”
I’m glad you feel that way. I know that I’ve not been directly involved lately on your show, but do we have a launch date in mind on your show?What is it about men that they feel the need to be superior? Click To Tweet
I’ve said September 1st but obviously, we’re past that. We’re finishing up this major course. It’s just going online. It’s called The Heroine’s Journey to True Wealth, Create Your Stability. That’s going up very shortly. I’m going to pick November 1st now.
Another thing I would suggest, when you’re talking with your cohost, Ivri, I would recommend instead of picking up the phone, which is probably your natural inclination to talk with her, send her a text and say, “Can you jump on Zoom with me?” Something like this tool and have that conversation over Zoom. Then if worse comes to worst and if it’s not something you want to save, you delete the recording. If you record those conversations, it will catch some good stuff that either you can repurpose in a podcast as a clip. You could also use that to remind yourself of a subject that you want to discuss when you are recording an episode in earnest. I have so many calls just in business on a daily basis over Zoom. I’m having more of them that way than I am over the telephone. I like it because I can record it and if I needed to take notes. Sometimes the person I’m talking with wants the recording so they can remind themselves with things. I highly recommend that.
Do you like Zoom better than Skype?
Skype was our primary tool when we started our first podcast years ago. I liked it very much because it was easy to use at the time. As time has gone on, I have found that from a quality perspective, Skype has not kept up with technological advances and the quality of Zoom recordings are much better. To use Skype, people have to have a Skype ID. If they don’t have one, they have to sign up and get one. If you’re sending a Zoom link to a guest, they don’t have to have a Zoom account. They just need the link and they come into it as you did here. That makes it easier for them.
Microsoft bought Skype and they’ve continually changed the functionality of the software for the worse, in my opinion. I do not enjoy using it. It’s harder to find things that I need. The only exception and this is where I still recommend people to use Skype. If you’re going to be interviewing somebody that is such a great get and you’ve been dying to get them but they’re completely technophobic. They do not want to use a computer to talk to you. They’re like, “I’ll be a guest on your show but I need you to call me on the phone.” They want you to make it easy for them. You could do that with Skype. You can have your Skype account and dial an actual landline old school phone number and you can record them through Skype.
If Tracy was here, I know she would say, “If your guest is not willing to use a computer, they’re not going to share it on social media or push it out.” That can be true, but you could also have somebody that’s such a high-level speaker or the type that don’t like dealing with the computer, but they may have a staff that will push it out. There’s no absolute in this but that’s the way I have used and needed to use Skype. When I had to call someone and interview them on the phone, but I don’t want to use the phone because it’s too difficult to use the phone and an app to record that conversation on the phone. The quality is not as good. I still would call from the computer using Skype. It’s a long answer to your question, but that was a good question and something worth sharing with everybody out there.
I use Skype all the time. Ivri and I are on Skype because she’s in Tucson and I’m in California. We’ve written our whole course by being on Skype together. Now that we’re going into the podcast realm, I think switching to Zoom is a better idea.
If Skype works for the two of you to keep having your conversations like this and to record them, by all means, use Skype if you’re happy with it. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’ll tell you what I use Skype for in business. I still use Skype with certain outsourced companies that I do business with. In fact, of the people that you and I both know of is Income Store. I had Ken and Kerri on, which was fun.
Income Store is right behind launching our new course with Dave Conklin at Conklin Media as well. We’re lined up and it’s so exciting.
You’re locked and loaded. You’ve got Dave Conklin on your team, we love him and his organization.
We’re about to launch a major campaign for the course. We’re going to be out there raising this conversation at a big level.
I feel you’re even more confident. You’re going to kill it with this. The folks at Income Store, when I’m communicating with any of them, the primary way that I get their attention is through Skype chat. It’s not even a call, just chatting them over Skype message. Even people I deal with in Asia, in China especially. I have a number of colleagues over there and Skype chat is our primary method of communication, which is surprising to some people. It’s actually a little surprising to me why wouldn’t they use text messages or WeChat or something.
I don’t really care as long as they know the way that I can get in touch with them the best way is, that’s what I’m going to use. Keep using Skype if you love Skype, but I think you will find a lot of nice benefits of Zoom not only in the quality but also in terms of you can have it recorded in the cloud. It doesn’t fill up the disk space of your computer with all those recordings. If you ever want to and you may not, but if you ever want to go live on Facebook, that function is all handled right within Zoom.
We’ll definitely do some live Facebook stuff and we’ll be all over Facebook. Dave Conklin will be going to have us all over Facebook very shortly. It’s a big campaign. That Heroine’s going to rise.
I’m excited. It needs to be. I don’t know what it is about men that they feel the need to be superior to women or to keep them pushed down. Maybe it’s because I’ve been raised by a single mother and I got all these women in my life who I love and want to see excel. If I’m really that different from other men or not, I don’t know. I’m not going to figure that out now but I’m very pleased.The planet needs some help and we all need to jump in for that help. Click To Tweet
Let’s say that the planet needs some help and we all need to jump in for that help. For women not to have a voice in that structure or for women not to be able to say what makes them safe and comfortable and have to come out 30 years later with the complaints that they have come out with. I’m one of those women who it just wasn’t right. It’s better that we can learn to speak up at the moment and put our two cents in and hopefully, we’ll all contribute to a better world.
I agree and I want that better world for my girls. You’ve talked to one of them because one of them works with us and she’s 23. The other two are much younger. They’re nine and four and I want a better world for them. Joan, it’s been a pleasure. I very much enjoyed speaking with you and thank you for taking some time. I do appreciate it.
I appreciate being with you.
I look forward to the launch of the podcast and if any of you want to make sure you’re notified about the launch of Joan’s podcast, we will announce that on our Feed Your Brand Facebook page when it does go live on iTunes. You can find out there among other places. Joan, it was a pleasure.
Thank you, Tom. I’d try to make it sooner rather than later.
- Joan Perry
- The Heroine’s Journey to True Wealth
- Eat, Pray, Love
- #MeToo Movement
- Income Store
- Conklin Media
- Feed Your Brand – Facebook page
About Joan Perry
Joan Perry is a women’s wealth advocate and cultural luminary. Her credits include best-selling author, pioneering high-net-worth investor, high-performance coach, philanthropist and publisher. As the Creator of the Women’s Wealth Model, her deepest joy comes from sharing her epic work, the Heroine’s Journey to True Wealth. This is the 13 Step path that women take to maturity, and to living a cherished life.
Joan’s first book ‘A Girl Needs Cash’ (Random House) was built on her extensive 30-year career in the elite financial arena and launched her as a national voice on women and money.
Joan became nationally known as the founder and President of the first female-owned investment banking firm in the country that underwrote municipal bonds. In this capacity, she traded billions of dollars of bonds in the public markets and ran her own securities firm. She developed in-depth knowledge and understanding about investing, business and how women ‘see’ money.
Joan has been a keynote speaker to large audiences of women in university alumni groups, corporate settings, conferences and on stages for well-known thought leaders like T. Harv Ecker and Tony Robbins. She has appeared in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal and Glamour Magazine and been on national media such as NPR and CNN.
She is the Publisher of the leading Authority site for Women and Money, found on the world-wide-web at WomensWealth. Money. Joan grew up in central Illinois; went to Denison University for her undergraduate work; and has an MBA from Vanderbilt University, the Owen School.